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Additional resources for earning interest in gold

13 responses to “Why Is Gold Becoming Scarcer, 16 Aug 2015”

  1. Just trying to walk through an understanding of the gold discount chart:

    A – The value of gold does not change.
    Ok, elemental gold is elemental gold. It has a fixed value, with the quantity being determined by its weight.

    B – The market price of the dollar, which is just the inverse the commonly quoted price of gold, does move.
    Easy enough, you have the dollar in milligrams of gold, or (1 / market price) * 31.1034768 * 1000

    Point C gets confusing

    C – The fundamental price of gold, which is just the inverse of the value of the dollar, moves independently of the market price.

    What is the value of the dollar? Obviously it is not the same as the “market price” in milligrams of gold or else the fundamental gold price and commonly quoted market gold price would match up the same every time.

    Right now on the chart it says gold is at a “~10% discount” to market price. So spot gold is $1117.89 right now (dollar is 27.82mg gold), that means the “fundamental” price of gold is $1,242.10 (1,117.89/0.9), and 25.04mg of gold for the dollar.

    This implies the market price of the dollar is trading at a 11.1% premium to its “value”.

    It all sounds interesting but it’s just working backwards from an arbitrary value on a chart with no explanation as to how the initial data was calculated in the first place. If this is a “proprietary secret” then the audience really can’t truly understand what they are looking at and the whole thing drifts more towards “fortune telling” for anyone lacking knowledge of the “fundamental price” calculation.

    Given the fortune telling nature of the chart to the audience, you may want to overlay either the dollar price of gold, or dollar price (in mg of gold) on the right axis and extend the date range of the data as far as possible. Then we can see if this data has historically had any fortune telling properties of prices or if it is just a collection of historical prices with no correlation or relationship.

    1. “[I]t’s just working backwards from an arbitrary value on a chart with no explanation as to how the initial data was calculated in the first place.” I half-agree with this critique; Keith has been talking about fundamental value in a way that almost suggests the Aquinas/Aristotle idea of “intrinsic value”, and has been coy about whatever formula he’s been using to calculate it. I suspect that he is protecting a proprietary formula, and if so, more power to him.

      But I think Keith has documented what he sees as fundamental for gold. It is a metal which should stay in contango and pay the warehouse a carrying charge commensurate with the costs of keeping a gold hoard. The current reading of ~10% discount indicates the speculative return (in gold) that you might expect from holding gold until that “normal” environment is reestablished.

      In backwardation, you are not being paid an income to carry gold; you’re offered a good lease rate to de-carry it. Fundamental value may be trying to price-in the eventual regression to the mean. That makes it a (proprietary) function of the red and green lines in Keith’s charts of particular futures contracts. I think I’d find this interesting to track, especially if it smooths out the discontinuous nature of discrete contract months. Of course if the formula remains a mystery for too long (i.e. stays irreproducible), its importance intellectually will be diminished. For now, I’m content to let the inventor tease us with the hope of a fabulous leading indicator.

  2. Excellent review yes these charts give any interesting perspective add them each week. Obviously the midnight bomber going most likely naked short Gold futures hasn’t read your warning but is aware their shorts are in need of protection, someone is going to be caught naked if this 10% discount remains. It does look like a stalemate someone with a large short position wants to get long but can’t off load them this is getting interesting.

  3. I too like the chart and second the request for a longer term perspective (I recall discounts being similar a couple of years ago when the gold price was 200-300/oz higher). So what happens to supply/scarcity with a rebound back towards $1200? Seems to me the last drops of blood (gold bugs’ blood) are being squeezed from the stone. Front-running in the futures market followed by physical supply on the rebound, perhaps by the same people. Pater Tenebrarum, for example, has described the large long speculative position taken at the very beginning of the bull market, which was liquidated in 2013.

  4. Like the new charts.
    Am I right in reading them as “green is a good time to accumulate,” if that’s what you’re doing?
    I’d be interested in your thoughts on not just how far, but how long, the metals can stray from their fundamental price. Seems like it can be a long while.

  5. When you said last week that the fundamental price is $100 bucks above the current price–how is that arrived at–past history of premiums and discounts? A black box? I agree with the first commenter, Pizza Genie. Without knowing how the fundamental price is arrived at, then we don’t know precisely what the premiums and discounts signify. Today, you are saying that the bid price is stronger than the offer? Why is the fundamental price $100 higher rather than $50 or $1000?

    1. Bid price on spot is higher than offer or sell on futures/paper. The first one is the current, today’s price, the second is the future price. That is backwardation when you have a future price of gold that is lower than the current price.

  6. Keith, I like the new chart. It is a visualization of the magnitude difference between your fundamental price and market price. Can you add weekly markers to your other graphs?

    On the rising value of the dollar, debt-backed, fiat currency in its mortality phase turns everything upside down economically as it desperately struggles to survive. One effect of that struggle is that all debt is denominated in the fiat currency. As defaults spiral, they destroy ever increasing quantities of the currency. Thus, we have the phenomenon that the quantity of currency is declining simultaneously with its quality.

    In this context, confidence in the currency begins taking its blows. However, with current levels of world-wide debt, there are few individuals or entities that are debt free. Therefore, the demand for that currency increases even as quality and confidence decline as people and entities struggle to remain solvent. Another consequence of the mass attempt to remain solvent is the selling of any real asset, voluntarily or involuntarily, to generate currency to repay debt.

    The breaking point will be when indebted individuals and entities, with any remaining assets, recognize what the final outcome will be and stop prioritizing debt repayment and prioritize hoarding — gold, silver, non-perishable food, etc. — as those items will mean the difference between surviving and not. That is point when confidence breaks and gold/silver are in permanent backwardation.

    It should be obvious that we (collective social mood) are quite a distance from that point, mentally & emotionally. Temporally, it is difficult to judge how long this will take — at least many months, probably a few years minimum. But, diligence is necessary.

  7. Keith the whole point of the SDR is to replace gold as the global reserve asset. Clearly this is the direction the international bankers are moving in. If you believe market confidence will collapse into gold, then I will assume you think the SDR scheme will not work despite all of the careful planning over the last 40 years. Why do you think the SDR scheme will not work? Thanks.

  8. Keith,

    I really like the spiffy new chart, and even color-coded too, for a righteous smidge of drive the point home drama.

    A really good article too, and my favorite significant point was the one you made about the dollar being just slice of the US government’s debt, and its likely repayment is dropping like a lead balloon!

    Thanks for the great work and info!

  9. Hello Keith,

    Just found your site a few days ago. I think it was from a Silver Doctors article you posted. Since then I have been reading to understand your’s and Dr. Fekete’s ideas about gold as money. I’ve been especially interested in your concepts about gold’s unique supply and demand characteristics that would enable one to trade it, instead of just passively stacking it.

    About the new chart: you requested feedback. I have to agree with Pizza Genie concerning point (C). Unless a reader can independently distinguish the “value” of a dollar from the “price” of a dollar, the chart does not have enough credibility for me to use as a basis for trading decisions.

    Thank you for all of the insightful work you have done here. I really appreciate it and I’m sure many others feel the same.

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