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Why earn interest on gold and silver? If you’re short on time or simply prefer to watch instead
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18 responses to “Falling Interest Causes Falling Wages”

    1. in my business wages are paid by current income. If I borrowed cash to fund wages on an overdraft then if interest rates are cut, then so are borrowing costs? i dont understand how wages are an income stream from a previous/ current loan am i missing something?

  1. 263.80 divided by 1.1 (110%) = 239.82
    Put differently
    263.80 times 0.909090909 (100/110) = 239.82

    The next year the discount compounds, so 100/110 * 100 /110 = 0.82644 * 263.80 = 218.02

  2. Keith, your article gives me the opportunity to ask the following:
    What happens in case of NEGATIVE rate of interest?
    At zero, present value goes to infinity. What is there beyond infinity?
    What are the consequences for a country with negative interest?
    Thank you for your well documented missives.

    1. panos: Good question!

      Clearly, there is no such thing as something greater than infinity. I still have to think about it more, but my first thought is that shorter-duration liabilities are not infinite and the present value can and does rise.

      1. Sure there is!! Remember Buzz Lightyear -“To Infinity and BEYOND!”
        I just did not realize that Mr Lightyear was talking about how much currency it would take to trade for actual money when the currency core melted down.

        Great job, Keith. I’m loving this stuff.

  3. The negative interest rate is a farce as human nature is not disposed to accept deteriorating conditions on a long-term basis. By example a negative income stream discounted by a negative interest rate produces a positive valuation which is not a truth. The negative rate should be considered an additional cost of doing business within a certain system.

    1. “[A] negative income stream discounted by a negative interest rate produces a positive valuation.”

      Yes. This is true! Indeed it is the reason debtors who believe they can hoard the value they’ve borrowed enjoy lower and lower (even negative) interest rates. at a -10% interest rate, say I borrow $100; in a year in a year I will pay you back with $90 (your deposit with me “earned” -10%). If I’ve stuffed the dollars in a mattress I have $10 in hand as my profit for investing your money safely for 1 year.

      The mind reels at this not due to any discontinuities in the arithmetic, but because of the perverse kinds of human action negative interest rates incentivize.

      1. “[A] negative income stream discounted by a negative interest rate produces a positive valuation.”

        If you mean “has a positive present value“, then: No. The sign on the interest rate does not combine multiplicatively. A -10% interest rate is calculated by a +0.90 multiplication factor. This does not change the sign of a negative present value to a positive one. If I will quite certainly rob you of $90 next year, at a -10% interest rate, my theft impairs $100 of your present net worth.

        Negative rates of risk-free return incentivize hoarding of money. Ultimately that is bound to collapse the circulation of the currency in question. For such currencies the exchange of wealth for income has been reduced to hoarding and dishoarding, i.e. there is no longer an efficient indirect exchange possible.

  4. It makes sense that, long-term, real wages would fall alongside interest rates – that is, alongside the declining return on real capital. But, I think, for different reasons than the ones given by this article.

    Real income comes from productivity under the Division of Labor. That is, real income comes from the *efficient* (or high-quality) use of capital and specialized labor, together.

    If the rate of return on capital is suppressed over time (financial repression), then there is less incentive to use capital efficiently. There is greater malinvestment and/or consumption of capital. The productive *quality* of capital degrades. I think we can observe this in the world around us, today.

    As for the reasons put forth in this article:

    – “When the rate of interest falls, the monthly payment [on tools] falls as well. This puts downward pressure on employment and wages” – I am not sure we’re seeing that, in the world around us. The suggestion is that, as interest rates are suppressed, laborers suffer from the greater substitution of capital. But elementary theory suggests that laborers should *benefit* from greater substitution of capital, as real productivity rises and new jobs/industries are created. (Unless quality of capital is indeed an issue, as I have suggested; that is, unless the so-called “capital” being substituted for labor is, in fact, low-quality or merely a mask for consumption.) Also, higher capital substitution should imply higher investment spending. Have we seen higher investment spending, as real wages have declined these last few decades? I think not, in the U.S. While China has indeed had higher investment spending – alongside growing real wages.

    – Prof. Fekete’s theories: Probably too long for a quick comment here, but I’m not 100% convinced by his theories. For one thing, his point about declining interest rates burdening the borrower seems to ignore the borrower’s typical behavior of re-financing, to gain lower payments. Re-financing means early loan repayment and that is when the lender/saver loses in real terms, because his future income stream is lowered.

    – “As the interest rate falls, the present value of…wages rises.” If that’s true, the real purchasing power of nominal wages should rise, under a regime of financial repression (fiat currency, QE). We have seen the opposite: Under the fiat/QE regime, asset prices are bid sky-high which transfers real purchasing power transfers from wages to the owners of assets.

  5. When interest rate falls, jobs may be created, but only in a society which is predisposed to using capital towards productive ends.

    Were the interest rate 10%, and if I wished to build a factory to make refrigerators, I would have to closely scrutinize my business plan and ensure that my return could support the interest payments (and make a profit). A decline in the interest rate would likely increase the probability that I could make this business work, so it would seem likely that more businesses would start.

    If interest rates are very low–and if there are implicit guarantees that they will remain so, then I may find incentives to forget the refrigerator business, and just borrow a lot of money and gamble it on the derivatives market, or enter the exciting world of high-frequency trading. If I win, I win big; if I lose, I just borrow twice as much and try again. With a near-zero interest rate, I can cover the debt until I win.

    The current low-interest-rate environment has directed all the creativity and ingenuity that used to go into making refrigerators and calculators and has directed towards financial speculation. Whereas every new refrigerator made can be argued to enrich society, profits from financial speculation only enrich the speculators. No jobs are created at the main street level. Lowering interest rates further in this environment merely encourages more speculation, not the creation of real businesses.

    What we are observing is the equivalent of a state change in a complex system, examples of which are discussed here: http://www.worldcomplex.blogspot.ca/2012/06/origins-of-multistability-in-economic.html

    1. “A decline in the interest rate would likely increase the probability that I could make this business work, so it would seem likely that more businesses would start.” – You’d think so. But in a world of government over-regulation? The rate of business formation stays low-ish.

      Your larger point (which still holds) is that lower interest rates stimulate malinvestment in general – for example, the speculation that you’ve mentioned; or an existing business doing a marginal project; or an existing business extending consumer credit to sub-prime consumers. Also known as, (thinly-disguised) consumption of capital.

      And again, real income comes from productivity which comes from capital formation / capital put to good uses. In a world of capital put to poor uses (or even consumed), yeah, real incomes are going to stagnate at best.

  6. It seems to me that the ease of refinancing and the fact that a business’s customers benefit from the easy credit are significant counters to this effect.

    Furthermore, during this period of diminishing interest rates, the proportion of income from corporate profits has increased nicely. And profits have increased nicely in absolute terms. This fits well with the substitution of machinery for labor encouraged by low interest rates. But not with the destruction of capital.

    1. Yes, corporate profits are at high levels. That fits with the ready availability of (fiat) cash; the *lowering* of nominal debt-servicing burdens (again due to re-financing) as interest rates decline; and the lack of high-paid and/or full-time corporate hiring, in this business cycle.

      The lack of high-paid/full-time corporate hiring obviously hurts workers. But it need not arise from capital substitution. Quite the opposite: Basic theory about the Division of Labor suggests that good-quality hiring should rise with the increasing use of capital, and decline as real capital erodes or dies.

      Thus, the lack of high-paid/full-time corporate hiring may be evidence of (real) capital destruction rather than capital substitution. And/or, evidence of the anti-freedom / anti-hiring regulatory environment of this business cycle (example, Obamacare).

      1. P.S. I do think that last factor (Obama administration) should not be under-estimated. Other things held equal, the employer burdens in Obamacare have somewhat biased today’s economy toward the creation of part-time jobs.

  7. Here’s what I can’t quite reconcile: the Fed is paying interest on excess reserves currently, and has essentially said the mechanism by which short rates will be signalled into “lift-off” is by raising that rate! Yet the ECB has negative rate for the same facility as is headed in the opposite direction. If the Fed wants to juice the lending channel to SME etc, why not disincentivize the holding of these massive excess reserve accounts by lowering the rate paid? I can’t seem to follow the logic – (as if that word even applies in this context!). Thanks for your insights…

  8. Well, the driving forces are actually much simpler than this… here’s how it works:

    Economists have observed that ECONOMIC GROWTH under “normal” conditions (i.e. 1900’s correlations) lead to INFLATION.
    In a similar manner that RAIN leads to WATER PUDDLES.

    Unfortunately, the same economic “experts” somehow came to the conclusion that creating WATER PUDDLES will cause RAIN.

    Not very smart, you may think, but that is the tragic reality.

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