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Why earn interest on gold and silver? If you’re short on time or simply prefer to watch instead
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15 responses to “A Salvo in the Battle for the Gold Standard”

  1. “A measure of value is a better way of defining money than a medium of exchange.”

    At least that’s a more convenient definition when one is lobbying that holders should not incur a capital gain tax.
    When the price of gold falls, dollar-denominated asset holders incur a capital gain, too.
    Wouldn’t it be quaint if they owed capital gain tax in gold on their speculative windfall?

    I say stick with Menger and focus on marketability (liquidity). Just be sure to insist that the Good itself be present (not latent) in the payment amount.

  2. Great article, and as usual, your writing style is clear and straightforward.

    I agree that we need to focus on re-establishing a free market in money.
    The only way to do that is eliminating the punitive tax on transactions involving gold and silver, and eliminating the monopoly advantage for paper money conveyed by legal tender laws.

    Would it help to point to the U.S. Constitution’s gold and silver clauses?
    We’re not looking for special privilege, just our Constitutional rights.

    1. Article 1, section 10: “No State shall … make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;” I think this is the line of argument to follow.

      In addition, we should argue that people wish to use gold as money, and that in a free country they should have that right.

  3. I accept the argument that gold is money and a store of value and I hope the day comes when gold is accepted as money. However, it seems that you are arguing that all the debt notes currencies (USD, Euro, Jyen etc.) must be redefined so they are not considered money. As long as governments make the rules, with the help of bankers, than a redefinition is practically impossible. Your point about taxation is interesting; are you arguing that taxation as an asset prevents gold from being considered money? I am not a forex trader but I think USD gains on forex trading is taxable, so wouldn’t this mean all the “foreign currencies” also fail the definition of money?

  4. Thanks for the comments.

    Greg: In Mengerian terms, the 28% tax on phantom “gains” makes gold far less marketable than it would be. Are you really saying that my article did not make it clear why we shouldn’t define money as “whatever happens to circulate”? Do you agree with the Democrat legislator who sees this as a special interest group lobbying for crony favors?

    jrskar: It may help in discussions with people who are interested, but skeptical, such as Greg above. From what I have observed, it is not helpful with legislators. We have sunk so far as a culture, that voters put candidates in office who have little regard for the Constitution. I think most voters have little regard. When I was in junior high school, they attempted to indoctrinate us with the “living, breathing” document. I assume by now they are inundating students with “it’s over 100 years old” (as Joe Klein said in Newsweek). I prefer to focus on the damage that the dollar is doing to people.

    zhkth1: Yes, that’s right. An irredeemable debt note is not money. It has none of the attributes of money, which is why the government has to use force to make it circulate. I agree that it is very difficult for people to form concepts based on an abstract–when the government is forcing an alternative reality on us.

    1. That’s true but in belgium there is not capital gains on gold and it is exactly the same situation than elsewhere in the west where there are capital gains.

      One other primary factor is taxes are to be paid in dollars, euros and so on and that public servants are paid in the same fiat.

  5. Keith, As a practical matter gold ETFs can be held in a Roth IRA. This would theoretically offer a way around your objection as to why gold cannot be money because of capital gains tax when the gold is ‘spent’.

  6. If we succeed in eliminating 28% gains tax on transactions in gold, as well as the legal tender laws, why won’t others argue for eliminating cap gains on “collectibles” like diamonds, fine art, vintage cars, etc.? How do we make the case that only gold and silver are money? I thought that is why the old white guys bothered to put those words in that out-dated document, anyway. Seems like we need some legal argument for claiming that only gold and silver are money, so not subject to capital gains. No?

    BTW, I would be happy paying taxes in FRNs, as long as I could use gold and silver for everything else. Have you worked through the impact on the income tax laws if gold and silver were allowed to circulate as money? Any articles on that?

  7. RD: I don’t know enough about Belgium to comment. Is it just the small size? Or are there other legal or regulatory problems? I don’t know.

    As to tax, I would be happy to sell some gold on April 14 to pay whatever tax is due! Gold is readily exchangeable for dollars so tax as such does not keep gold out of circulation.

    Dave: Can you pull gold out of a Roth IRA every day for groceries and gas? How many people have such an account?

    jrskar: I argue that only gold and silver are money for a number of reasons, including bid-ask spread. But most visibly is the high stocks to flows ratios. No other good even comes close.

    I have thought about how the tax law must change. One change is that the taxpayer must have the right to make an election to change numeraire to gold, silver, or a compound of the two. Suppose you have a shoe store. At the start of the year, you have 100oz gold capital. You buy 100oz worth of shoes. Sell them. Buy shoes. Sell. At the end of the year, you have 110oz. Your profit is 10oz, and you pay your income tax on that (i.e. probably 3oz). No one wants to pay tax, but I think the shoe store owner would not be too upset about this. Vs. today the government will say you started with 100oz X 1200 = $120,000. Suppose the gold price goes up to $1,500. At the end of the year, you have 110 X 1500 = $165,000. Pay tax on $165,000, or $49,500. At $1,500 per ounce, this is 33oz. Your tax is 3.3X greater than your profit!

    1. In acit I am quite sure it is the same thing in Luxembourg but also in switzerland !

      Currently the problem with gold for physical quantities even of about 1 million euros is that the bid/ask is still 1% or more.

      Gold will stay as a hedge for wealth preservation and maybe trans boder money transfer but into each states, fiat will reign supreme while states decide to do so.

      If current fiat system fails, and other one will emerge… until it fails again !

    2. Maybe I’m not understanding, but wouldn’t the capital gains in your scenario be $165,000 – $120,000 or $45,000. At a .3 tax rate that would result in tax of $13,500 or 9 oz. Still unfair, to be sure, but not as catastrophically bad as you presented.

  8. They are your readers, so I would expect them to be more in tune with the reality of the government fraud. (fraud in everything).
    But some still don’t get it. If it’s not gold or silver then it’s NOT money. It doesn’t matter how common it is, or how it’s presented (spun), if it’s not gold/silver it’s NOT money.
    You may be able to use paper dollars “as if it were money” but you will always come out on the short end in anything that has time as a factor. (like savings)
    I have been fighting the wrong headed view about the Federal Reserve since the late 1950’s and it’s going downhill all along.
    Some of the arguments are so far out that they are not even wrong.

  9. Keith, Lord No! I’m not arguing for capital gains (or any) taxation. Yes, that not only widens the spread for gold transactions, it also ruins the constancy of its marginal utility. If we took that law literally you’d have to decide which “lot” of gold you’d just bought or sold to figure its profit.

    No. I’m a huge fan of yours. Like you I suspect, my ears prick up whenever some tries to “define” what is Money. It’s the root of the matter. Please keep at it. For me the argument from first principles decided the question, and Menger is so badly overlooked by the QTM crowd that I have a reflex to keep mentioning him just to keep his name in circulation. But I really see how everyone needs to come to this insight on their own road. Your articles can make a huge impact.

    I dropped back in this evening just to appreciate another of your quotes (from the Gold4Dems article):
    “Gold doesn’t give the rich free money. Under the gold standard, the rich have to do what everyone else does to make their money. Work for it.”

  10. I don’t know, it seems to me that if dollar currency is valued only against other currencies, and all the currencies are I.O.U.s backed only by their respective governments ability to tax I.O.U.s, and those I.O.Us can only come from creating evermore I.O.U.s etc.… Eventually the I.O.U.s would have no purchasing power, because nobody will want to be at the bottom actually producing something to exchange for them.

    It astounds me that many can’t see that the math won’t allow debt to work as money for long, mainly because the parasitic masters must limit their numbers in order to not kill the slaves through sustenance depravation.

    Gold-based money is the only way to keep the freeloading parasitic masters to slave ratio balanced, and humming along for any real length of time. I think the best way of convincing folks to quit going along with reality defiance is to educate with focus on the math, and stress the importance to correct it now while the slaves are still barely hanging on. The math is the best chance of getting through to folks?

    Your long rates getting down to zero ending the show writings are doing it for me. I just would really like to see something on what about the math keeps the Fed from just zeroing out the debts on their balance sheet, because it seems consequences are nil since they print from thin air unlike the lesser banks. Also what keeps them from controlling interest rates through paying interest on excess reserves (why buy a zero rate bond if you can park money at the fed and get paid)? Does the fact they pay that interest out of funds that are normally remitted back to the treasury causing ever-bigger deficits have anything to do with it ending in failure? How does that math work? I too am a huge fan of yours, and your writings really help me on figuring stuff out, hopefully I will smarten up and quit asking dumb questions if I follow you long enough.

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